Dr. Bob calls up AIDS researcher Carlos del Rio and longtime AIDS activist Gregg Gonsalves to explore what the HIV/AIDS epidemic of the ‘80s and ‘90s can teach us about COVID-19 today. They discuss the politicization of both viruses, how the role of activism compares, and how the 30-plus-year quest for an HIV vaccine helped advance the COVID-19 vaccines. Plus, what HIV/AIDS can show us about what it means to return to “normal.”

Follow Dr. Bob on Twitter @Bob_Wachter and check out In the Bubble’s new Twitter account @inthebubblepod.

Find Gregg Gonsalves @gregggonsalves and Carlos Del Rio @CarlosdelRio7 on Twitter.

Keep up with Andy in D.C. on Twitter @ASlavitt and Instagram @andyslavitt. 

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Check out these resources from today’s episode: 

• Watch Dr. Fauci’s full 1984 lecture on research, findings, and questions related to AIDS: https://youtu.be/pzK3dg59TuY 
• Learn more about pioneering AIDS activist Larry Kramer, who died last year: kramer-dead.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/us/larry-kramer-dead.html 
• Listen to President Reagan’s Press Secretary, Larry Speakes, laughing about AIDS in the 1980s: https://youtu.be/yAzDn7tE1lU 
• Don’t miss this In the Bubble episode with HIV prevention researcher Julia Marcus: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/is-it-ok-to-hug-your-family-after-vaccine-julia-marcus/id1504128553?i=1000507543756 
• Check out former Surgeon General David Satcher’s 2005 paper about about health disparities between Black and white Americans: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7976375_What_If_We_Were_Equal_A_Comparison_of_the_Black-White_Mortality_Gap_in_1960_and_2000 
• Read more about Dr. Fauci’s plenary lecture on the HIV and COVID-19 pandemics at the CROI 2021 conference: https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/research-highlights-croi-2021 
• Read the New York Times article, ‘America’s Hidden H.I.V. Epidemic,’ that Gregg mentions in today’s episode: hidden-hiv-epidemic.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/magazine/americas-hidden-hiv-epidemic.html 
• Watch an entire performance of Jean Sibelius’s Finlandia here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=fE0RbPsC9uE
• Learn more about Dr. Bob Wachter and the UCSF Department of Medicine here: https://medicine.ucsf.edu/ 

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