On this special episode of CAFE Insider, Joyce Vance interviews Lee Gelernt, the Deputy Director of the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project.  Gelernt is one of the country’s leading civil rights lawyers. During the Trump administration, he filed lawsuits challenging the White House’s most draconian immigration policies, including the ban on individuals from certain Muslim-majority countries and the family separation policy at the border. Now, Gelernt is actively litigating a case against the Biden administration for its use of a Trump-era public health policy to expel migrants at the border.  To hear Joyce’s full conversation with Gelernt, where he discusses the status of the Trump administration’s border separation policy and reflects on national security law in the wake of 9/11, become a member of CAFE Insider and get the first two weeks free: www.cafe.com/insider This podcast is brought to you by CAFE Studios and Vox Media Podcast Network.  Tamara Sepper – Executive Producer; Adam Waller – Senior Editorial Producer; Matthew Billy – Audio Producer; Sam Ozer-Staton – Editorial Producer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices