Earlier this month Marshall moderated a conversation Jennifer Pahlka and Michael Kratsios on their experiences moving from tech to government and back again.  Jennifer Pahlka, founder of Code for America, served as the Deputy Chief Technology Officer of the United States under President Obama, and as a member of the Defense Innovation Board under Presidents Obama and Trump. This year, she published Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better. Michael Kratsios, former Principal and Chief of Staff at Thiel Capital, served as Chief Technology Officer of the United States and Under Secretary of Defense at the Pentagon during the Trump administration. Today, he is Managing Director at Scale AI, where he leads corporate strategy and helps accelerate AI applications across industries. They discuss how tech can contribute to the national interest, opportunities for a tech "tour of duty" in government, and the sclerotic political environment in DC.