Michael Stephens is a Research fellow at RUSI and an expert in the history of the Kurds and Kurdistan. He explains who, what and where the Kurds are and the role that they have played in the region over the past century.

He is followed by Hannah Lucinda Smith The Times Newspaper correspondent in Istanbul who has just written THE book on Erdogan. She explains why President Erdogan regards their expressions of national identity as an existential threat to the integrity of the Turkish state.

This podcast goes deep into the past of the Middle East, via the formation of modern Turkey in the 1920s to the present day and the electoral ambitions of the Turkish president.

See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.