We urge people to be creative, with phrases like ‘think outside the box’, and ‘push the envelope’. But for the most part, is all our talk of innovation and free thinking just rhetoric? Does society truly encourage people to think in new, and even radical, ways? Does society champion the rogue thinker, or does it rather support both students and professionals who simply follows suit with the status quo and acquiesce to the traditional lines of thinking? Jeff Schmidt, author of the 2000 book, Disciplined Minds: A Critical Look at Salaried Professionals and the Soul-Battering System That Shapes Their Lives, joins the podcast.