In this episode, Mark Leonard welcomes Catherine Ashton – the European Union’s first high representative for foreign affairs and security policy and the first female EU commissioner for trade – to talk about her new book “And Then What? Inside Stories of 21st Century Diplomacy”. As a seasoned mediator, Ashton played a crucial role in negotiating the ‘Brussels agreement’ between Serbia and Kosovo in 2013 and the Joint Plan of Action with Iran the same year. But what is her outlook on diplomacy today? How can diplomats lay the groundwork for success? Concerning Ukraine, what are the chances for diplomacy under such difficult global conditions? And what role should the United Kingdom play in future European and international relations? This podcast was recorded on 1o January 2023. Bookshelf: - And Then What? Inside Stories of 21st Century Diplomacy by Catherine Ashton - Never by Ken Follett - Leadership: Lessons from a Life in Diplomacy by Simon McDonald