Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to founder and CEO of Luta Security Katie Moussouris. Moussouris has a long history in computer security, working at Microsoft and the Department of Defense creating their first bug bounty programs to incentivize catching and reporting security bugs and vulnerabilities in software systems. Nilay and Katie discuss the good and bad of bug bounties, encryption dilemmas with consumer devices, voting security in elections, and overall how we keep our software and networks secure. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices