Both contenders for the Tory leadership, Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt, mades news on the hustings the other day by stating that even a time-limit to the backstop would not be enough: the backstop simply must go. Assuming Boris Johnson becomes the next PM, as seems likely, how does he plan to get any kind of deal with the EU with such a hardline approach? What, in short, is his game? To find out, Hugh and Pat talk to political editor of The Spectator magazine, James Forsyth. Later on, Una Mullally is here to look back on the life, achievements and allyship of the late Noel Whelan.

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