Today we are joined by Dr Fiona Kerr, Founder and CEO of the Neurotech Institute, and leading futurist and author Steve Sammartino in our first double header with previous guests. Fiona was interviewed in episode 11 of Real People and Steve in episode 16. This most certainly was an explosion of thinking as Fiona and Steve shared their observations of the world in chaos and what this means moving forward. We discuss a huge amount in a rollercoaster chat from digital sovereignty to how well Australia is performing at a global scale. We discuss the hunger games of the US and lessons as to how to take a longer-term perspective can be learnt from places like Finland. We ponder is Australia more like the US or Europe? And, does Australia's safe stability make us lucky or lazy? We discuss systems thinking and blind spots. What future capitalism will look like. And, the high likelihood we will just slot back into comfortable old ways, even with the pause during COVID-19 to slow down and think about better ways moving forward. Real People is a podcast hosted by Jason Dunstone, the founder and managing director of Square Holes. Subscribe to Real People on your favourite podcast player. Jason builds on his 25 years of conducting human-centred research, interviewing average and not so average people (rich, poor, old, young, content and vulnerable) to understand what they believe and how they behave. Check out the Real People website - http://squareholes.com/realpeople Connect with Jason Dunstone on Twitter @jasondunstone - https://twitter.com/jasondunstone?lang=en Send Jason an email - jason@squareholes.com Read more blogs from Jason Dunstone - https://squareholes.com/blog/author/jason/ Find out more about Square Holes - http://www.squareholes.com/ Produced with Apiro Media - https://www.apiropodcasts.com/