Today we are joined by Distinguished Professor Genevieve Bell, Director of the 3A Institute at ANU in Canberra, a collaboration with CSIRO's Data61, with the mission of building a new applied science around the management of artificial intelligence, data, technology and their impact on humanity. Genevieve is also Senior Fellow, New Technology Group at Intel, since joining Intel as a researcher to conduct ethnographic research in 1998. This is a most fascinating discussion about the world in chaos, how we are adjusting and what might come. We discuss key themes such as contact tracing and mass surveillance, and how critical it is that our communities embrace to fight COVID-19. We explore how the devastating Australian bushfires and now COVID-19 have shone the light on our vulnerabilities and segments of the community that were already falling through the cracks dealing with inequality, personal dangers and complexities, and the role of the government in supporting this. Genevieve shares her perspective on how Australia has dealt with COVID-19 compared with other parts of the world, and how it is near impossible to understand the situation without more data and stable models. Real People is a podcast hosted by Jason Dunstone, the founder and managing director of Square Holes. Subscribe to Real People on your favourite podcast player. Jason builds on his 25 years of conducting human-centred research, interviewing average and not so average people (rich, poor, old, young, content and vulnerable) to understand what they believe and how they behave. Check out the Real People website - http://squareholes.com/realpeople Connect with Jason Dunstone on Twitter @jasondunstone - https://twitter.com/jasondunstone?lang=en Send Jason an email - jason@squareholes.com Read more blogs from Jason Dunstone - https://squareholes.com/blog/author/jason/ Find out more about Square Holes - http://www.squareholes.com/ Produced with Apiro Media - https://www.apiropodcasts.com/