Doug Hoyes explains why even with high debt and high pandemic-related unemployment bankruptcy filings continue to drop, and he gives his predictions for the next few months, and then, given the stress caused by the COVID-19 lock down, we rebroadcast our conversation with Shannon Lee Simmons, author of Living Debt-Free: The No-Shame, No-Blame Guide to Getting Rid of Your Debt about how negative feelings towards debt can create more debt and strategies that can put you in the right direction when dealing with your debt.