In this interview I had the privilege of talking with Dr. George Kalantzis about his book, "Caesar and the Lamb," and the topic of sacralism.

0:00 - Introduction4:00 - Sacralism14:40 - Origin stories18:25 - Voting27:30 - Consequentialism30:00 - Discipleship34:50 - Dr. Kalantzis introduction36:45 - Define and explain Sacralism42:30 - Why can't we see Sacralism?48:35 - Veneration vs. Worship of state52:50 - Importance of origin stories and myth63:00 - Sacralism as unification and absolution75:00 - Voting as a sacral act81:15 - Consequentialism and power84:00 - Propaganda and orthopraxy93:10 - Where do we go from here?

A huge thanks to Seth White for the awesome music!

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My Reading List Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/21940220.J_G_Elliot

Spotify Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4VSvC0SJYwku2U0awRaNAu?si=3ad0b2fbed2e4864Interview Questions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZpI_296MIF4UUd5yM4x9XHx8F2puZlGzH24EoRnXao/edit?usp=sharingCaesar and the Lamb: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16237822-caesar-and-the-lamb?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_19Anatomy of a Hybrid: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1461694.The_anatomy_of_a_hybrid?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_19A Hidden Life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJXmdY4lVR0Martyrdom and Memory: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20178705-martyrdom-and-memory?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=hNKyGMHx3z&rank=1Desiring the Kingdom: https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/subscribeHauerwas's "The Sacrifices of War and the Sacrifice of Christ:" https://www.abc.net.au/religion/the-sacrifices-of-war-and-the-sacrifice-of-christ/10098368 On Revolution: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/127232.On_RevolutionChristian Nonresistance in All its Important Bearings: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1610861.Christian_Non_Resistance?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=idCkDpGUHe&rank=3Morality of Being Episode: https://share.transistor.fm/s/d6e0f66eDr. Kalantzis's interview w/Preston Sprinkle: https://theologyintheraw.com/podcast/the-early-church-on-military-service-and-killing-dr-george-kalantzis/James K.A. Smith's Mall: https://jameskasmith.com/the-mall-as-consumerist-cathedral/

Arendt's Quote: The word religion must be understood in its original roman sense and [the piety of the founders] would then consist in binding themselves back to a beginning as roman pietas consisted in being bound back to the beginning of roman history the foundation of the eternal city…… And since it was in this respect that the American revolution was most conspicuously different from all other revolutions which were to follow, one was tempted to conclude that it was the authority that the act of foundation carried in itself rather than the belief in an eternal legislator, or the promises of reward and the threats of punishment in a future state, or even the doubtful self-evidence of the truths enumerated in the preamble to the declaration of independence that assured stability for the New Republic.

Ballou's Quote: As constituent supporters of human government, ( whether civil or military, or a compound of both -) in its state or national sovereignty, men are morally responsible for all constitutions, institutions, laws, processes, and usages, which they have pledged themselves to support, or which they avowedly approve, or which they depend upon as instrumentalities for securing and promoting their personal welfare, or in which they acquiesce without positive remonstrance and disfellowship. Thus if a political compact, a civil or military league, covenant, or constitution, requires, authorizes, provides for, or tolerates war, bloodshed, capital punishment, slavery, or any kind of absolute injury - offensive or defensive, the man who swears, affirms, or otherwise pledges himself to support such a compact, league, covenant, or constitution, is just as responsible for every act of injury done in strict conformity thereto, as if he himself personally committed it. He is not responsible for abuses and violations of the constitution.

But for all that is constitutionally done he is responsible. The army is his army, the navy his navy, the militia his militia, the gallows his gallows, the -^ pillory his pillory, the whipping-post his whipping-post, the branding-iron his branding-iron, the prison to prison, the dungeon his dungeon, and the slaveholding his slaveholding. When the constitutional majority declare war, it is his war. All the slaughter, rapine, ravages, robbery, destruction, and mischief committed under that declaration, in accordance with the laws of war, are his. Nor can he exculpate himself by pleading that he was one of a strenuous anti-war minority in the government. He was in the government. He had sworn, affirmed, or otherwise pledged himself, that the majority should have discretionary power to declare war. He tied up his hands with that anti-Christian obligation, to stand by the majority in all the crimes and abominations inseparable from war. It is therefore his war, its murders are his murders, its horrible injuries on humanity are his injuries. " They are all committed with his solemn sanction. There is no escape from this terrible moral responsibility but by a conscientious withdrawal from such government, and an uncompromising protest against so much of its fundamental creed and constitutional law, as is decidedly anti-Christian. He must cease to be its pledged supporter and approving dependent.

• Philip Does
• Laverne Miller
• Jesse Killion