Carson Chan is an architecture writer, curator, and educator. He is the inaugural director of the Emilio Ambasz Institute for the Joint Study of the Built and Natural Environment at MoMA and a curator in the department of architecture and design. He previously co-founded the Current Collective for Architecture History and Environment and the Berlin-based project space PROGRAM. In this conversation, Jarrett and Carson talk about the ambition of the Ambasz Institute, the process of redefining architecture, and why aquariums are a lens to view the intersections of the natural and built worlds. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/224-carson-chan. — If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast