How do we make sense of chaos and lead through it? What can we expect from Generation Z / Generation Alpha as leaders? What is the antidote to the pessimism we experience through post-modernism? These are some of the robust questions James and I explore in our conversation about his book, Metamodern Leadership - A history of seven values that will change the world.

We travel through the historical periods of modernism, post-modernism, and metamodernism to look at how we see and operate in the world. We look at developmental models of human experience. We consider the 4 generational archetypes and how they have affected our leadership over the ages. We ask, Trump vs Obama, nationalism vs globalism - what will empower people and nations? How can we lead from behind in chaos? A very full and engaging conversation for those interested in leadership needed for our complex world.

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Resources and books mentioned:

James’s 7 values as explored in the book:

1. Art and ego - Participation

2. Social theory and cooperation - partnership (sharing economy)

3. Psychology and motivation - personalization (know thyself)

4. Philosophy and  education - pedagogy (teach through problem-solving)

5. Ecology and capitalism - purpose (purpose not capitalism )

6. Mythology and leadership - power shift ( leading from behind - understanding complex natural systems)

7. Globalization and democracy - planetary shift (a more inclusive, compassionate leadership)

“Leadership then cannot be just another discipline to learn but a melding of all the virtues of human knowledge”

Create Seven

Jane Loevinger - Theory of Ego Development

Bill Torbert - Action Inquiry and Leadership 

Ken Wilber - Integral Theorist and Philosopher

Ken Wilber - the Four Quadrants

Hanzi Freinacht

Michelle Gelfand - Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: How Culture Wires Our Minds, Shapes Our Nations and Drives Our Differences

The symbol of Janus

Jordan Peterson - a return to convention

The Fourth Turning, Howe and Strauss

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SHOWNOTES: www.zoerouth.com/podcast/metamodernleadership

About James Surwillo:

James Surwillo, MA, PMP is a speaker, author, and leader in a Fortune 15 company. He is an advocate for the leadership of the next generation and an authority on the history of generational and cultural change. His goal is to help business, government, and non-profit organizations adopt strategies based on the inevitable human resources and leadership transformation. Leadership and followship as a practice, is very contextual and mythological. Why we lead and why we follow is much deeper than we as individuals even understand. The more we can understand these differences the more effective leaders we can become. Further information can be found at jamessurwillo.com and his book Metamodern Leadership is available at all major outlets". 

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Related episodes

E45 - Why we need new leadership maturity, and how to get there - Interview with Dr. Maja Stanojevic-Andre

E90 - How to move from Expert to Team Leader

E107 - From Achiever to Amplifier: How to expand perspective

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About your host,  Zoë Routh:

Zoë Routh is one of Australia’s leading experts on people stuff - the stuff that gets in our way of producing results, and the stuff that lights us up. She works with the growers, makers, builders to make people stuff fun and practical.

Zoë is the author of four books: Composure - How centered leaders make the biggest impact,  Moments - Leadership when it matters most, Loyalty - Stop unwanted stuff turnover, boost engagement, and build lifelong advocates, and People Stuff - Beyond Personalities: An advanced handbook for leadership. People Stuff was awarded Book of the Year 2020 by the Smart WFM Australian Business Book Awards.

Zoë is also the producer of The Zoë Routh Leadership Podcast.

www.zoerouth.com